WEBVTT 00:00:07.320 --> 00:00:08.730 >> Hey there Haskell Weekly listeners. 00:00:08.820 --> 00:00:10.860 Welcome back to the Haskell Weekly podcast. 00:00:11.070 --> 00:00:14.340 It's supposed to be weekly, but it's been about a month since our last one. 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:15.480 Apologies for that. 00:00:16.560 --> 00:00:18.180 I'm your host Taylor Fausak. 00:00:18.270 --> 00:00:21.300 I'm the director of software engineering at ACI Learning. 00:00:21.390 --> 00:00:23.970 And with me today as per usual, is Cam. 00:00:24.389 --> 00:00:25.180 Thanks for joining me, Cam. 00:00:25.710 --> 00:00:26.430 >> Hello, hello. 00:00:26.430 --> 00:00:27.270 It's good to be back. 00:00:27.270 --> 00:00:29.190 I know we've been trying to do this for a little bit. 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:31.860 Um, but yeah, my name's Cam Gera. 00:00:31.890 --> 00:00:35.760 Uh, I am a senior software engineer at MotoRefi, so, uh, 00:00:35.970 --> 00:00:37.200 yeah, excited to be here today. 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:43.140 And, uh, we got some fun stuff, um, recent released in the Haskell, uh, ecosystem. 00:00:43.320 --> 00:00:47.220 And so we're excited to share that with you guys and, um, honestly 00:00:47.220 --> 00:00:50.600 just spend some time and break it down, be a little more casual today. 00:00:51.105 --> 00:00:52.935 Um, you know, get, get to here. 00:00:52.935 --> 00:00:55.675 Cause I haven't really heard what Taylor's went up to in a minute. 00:00:55.695 --> 00:00:58.335 So Taylor what's been going on over at ACI Learning, 00:00:59.625 --> 00:01:00.585 >> all kinds of stuff. 00:01:00.735 --> 00:01:07.725 The big ticket item is merging with practice labs, uh, who is not exactly a 00:01:07.725 --> 00:01:11.955 competitor of ours, but another company in the same space who has a complimentary 00:01:11.955 --> 00:01:13.695 skillset and product offering. 00:01:13.695 --> 00:01:13.935 So. 00:01:14.910 --> 00:01:19.560 Uh, my life recently has been talking with the folks over at practice labs and 00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:23.130 trying to identify some commonalities between our engineering orgs. 00:01:23.130 --> 00:01:23.850 What can we share? 00:01:23.850 --> 00:01:24.840 What do we do differently? 00:01:24.870 --> 00:01:28.365 What do we each — uh, which unique skills do each of us bring to the 00:01:28.365 --> 00:01:29.835 table and can we share with each other? 00:01:30.255 --> 00:01:33.075 So that's been going great, really looking forward to continuing that. 00:01:33.315 --> 00:01:39.435 Um, and for me personally, uh, I've been doing some work on the Brittany code base, 00:01:39.465 --> 00:01:43.995 which is a Haskell source code formatter, uh, that we use here at ACI Learning. 00:01:44.205 --> 00:01:52.125 And it hasn't been updated to support GHC 9.0, which came out a while ago. 00:01:52.155 --> 00:01:55.815 And today we're going to be talking about 9.2, but, um, I'm trying to 00:01:55.815 --> 00:02:01.215 bring it up to date and make it work so that it can be used as part of H L S. 00:02:01.695 --> 00:02:03.015 >> Ooh nice. 00:02:03.435 --> 00:02:07.605 Yeah, we, uh, haven't been using uh Brittany and we used it for a minute. 00:02:08.085 --> 00:02:11.925 Um, but we've been focusing more so on fourmolu. 00:02:11.985 --> 00:02:20.670 So we're using ormolu's I dunno, customizable brother fourmolu and, 00:02:20.670 --> 00:02:23.910 uh, that's been surprisingly good. 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:26.790 Um, I know there's a couple more things that still need to be 00:02:26.790 --> 00:02:31.740 implemented in fourmolu to make me not, uh, my eyes not burn. 00:02:32.040 --> 00:02:35.850 Um, when I'm looking at, you know, some Haskell code, uh, cause right 00:02:35.850 --> 00:02:41.760 now like, oh dude, the one that's most frustrating to me is the trailing arrows. 00:02:41.790 --> 00:02:45.540 So if you have a function with multiple parameters and in the 00:02:45.540 --> 00:02:46.500 type signature if you have. 00:02:46.660 --> 00:02:48.209 you know oh so long. 00:02:48.209 --> 00:02:50.280 And you want to divvy it up. 00:02:50.309 --> 00:02:52.170 It's like, everything's at the end of the line. 00:02:52.649 --> 00:02:55.350 And it's, I'm like, ah, I don't like this. 00:02:55.380 --> 00:02:57.299 It's just, it's just different from the norm. 00:02:57.720 --> 00:03:00.380 Um, if you're a normal user, I get it. 00:03:00.390 --> 00:03:01.230 You, you like that? 00:03:01.230 --> 00:03:01.410 That's 00:03:01.410 --> 00:03:01.679 >> cool. 00:03:02.429 --> 00:03:02.700 Yeah. 00:03:02.730 --> 00:03:06.329 I've always said that I don't really care what the formatting looks like. 00:03:06.329 --> 00:03:09.149 I just care that it's automated, but, ormolu has really. 00:03:09.855 --> 00:03:12.915 Pushed that pushed me to be honest about that. 00:03:12.915 --> 00:03:16.035 Like, I do care a little bit about how it looks and I don't like 00:03:16.035 --> 00:03:19.365 how ormolu looks, but I do like everything else about that project. 00:03:19.365 --> 00:03:21.945 Like it's well-maintained and they have a lot of good tools and they 00:03:21.945 --> 00:03:24.645 have like check mode and they have a GitHub actions for running it. 00:03:24.855 --> 00:03:25.965 I think all that stuff is great. 00:03:25.965 --> 00:03:27.495 And I'm going to try to do the same for Brittany. 00:03:28.095 --> 00:03:28.485 Nice. 00:03:28.685 --> 00:03:29.355 >> That'll be good. 00:03:29.715 --> 00:03:29.985 Yeah. 00:03:30.045 --> 00:03:34.485 I mean, when we were kind of thinking since, you know, really last time 00:03:34.515 --> 00:03:38.945 since the last time we've talked, um, you know, at MotoRefi we've just been. 00:03:40.095 --> 00:03:45.455 All out on, uh, creating a new product and that's really what the team I'm 00:03:45.455 --> 00:03:47.115 on and, and what we're focusing on. 00:03:47.115 --> 00:03:49.875 So, um, for me, it was all right. 00:03:49.875 --> 00:03:53.265 We just need to pick a formatter for now and go with it. 00:03:53.295 --> 00:03:59.575 And so we thought about Brittany thought about ormolu and then fourmolu 00:03:59.595 --> 00:04:02.084 was there and I was like, alright, I can get on board with fourmolu. 00:04:02.105 --> 00:04:02.685 Like, that's fine. 00:04:02.685 --> 00:04:03.855 Let's, let's move forward with it. 00:04:03.855 --> 00:04:06.145 So, um, you know, I didn't really 00:04:08.010 --> 00:04:09.630 make too much of a fuss about either. 00:04:09.720 --> 00:04:13.320 Um, because at the same time, like you said, it's automated, like as 00:04:13.320 --> 00:04:14.580 long as it's automated and it works. 00:04:14.580 --> 00:04:15.060 We're good. 00:04:15.270 --> 00:04:16.920 Um, that, that's what we care about. 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:21.269 So, um, that's kinda my stance on where, where we're at at 00:04:21.269 --> 00:04:21.660 >> the moment. 00:04:22.230 --> 00:04:24.840 So other than source code formatting, what else have you been up to? 00:04:25.890 --> 00:04:27.060 You said building a new product. 00:04:27.090 --> 00:04:28.480 That's exciting greenfield's always fun. 00:04:28.830 --> 00:04:29.150 Yeah, 00:04:29.150 --> 00:04:29.320 >> yeah. 00:04:29.320 --> 00:04:29.520 Yeah. 00:04:29.520 --> 00:04:30.120 It's been fun. 00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:32.610 So, um, we've been of. 00:04:33.900 --> 00:04:39.270 The previous product was a monolith with its giant code Ruby code base. 00:04:39.659 --> 00:04:40.799 Uh, and we're not touching that. 00:04:40.919 --> 00:04:45.479 So we're actually, um, actually going though with a microservice 00:04:45.479 --> 00:04:47.789 architecture, um, with event sourcing. 00:04:47.909 --> 00:04:51.795 And so, uh, At the beginning, I was a little bit like, wait, 00:04:51.795 --> 00:04:53.445 what, why, why are we doing this? 00:04:53.775 --> 00:04:57.435 And I'm still like every once in a while, like, ah, I wish we had like more 00:04:57.435 --> 00:05:00.705 shared code, but we're really trying to get better about bounded context. 00:05:00.705 --> 00:05:06.495 And that's kind of the whole push for, uh, event sourcing and, uh, microservices. 00:05:06.495 --> 00:05:11.085 So, you know, we created four new services in the last month that, um, 00:05:11.175 --> 00:05:15.735 kind of uses event bus as more or less or event log as more of a less. 00:05:16.425 --> 00:05:17.805 Means to do actions. 00:05:17.895 --> 00:05:21.555 Um, you know, so obviously we have an endpoint that will take the 00:05:21.555 --> 00:05:27.435 information, uh, that is needed and push it into this event log event stream. 00:05:28.275 --> 00:05:32.445 And then we'll have, we have a couple services who listened to various, 00:05:32.535 --> 00:05:35.145 uh, events on that event log. 00:05:35.355 --> 00:05:37.755 And so that was, uh, it's been fun. 00:05:37.815 --> 00:05:41.565 It's I was impressed with how fast we were able to iterate. 00:05:41.985 --> 00:05:44.925 Um, we got all four services up with. 00:05:45.840 --> 00:05:47.460 A week before our deadline. 00:05:47.730 --> 00:05:51.690 Um, and so, uh, it was yeah. 00:05:52.140 --> 00:05:52.740 All out. 00:05:53.280 --> 00:05:56.850 Um, and now we're just kinda starting to add some more services 00:05:56.850 --> 00:06:00.810 and different, uh, things that we wanted to be able to do after MVP. 00:06:00.810 --> 00:06:03.570 So Monday is our official launch. 00:06:04.380 --> 00:06:07.680 >> You say that's the power of Haskell you're able to deliver 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:10.710 quick, more quickly than the old fashioned Ruby services. 00:06:11.100 --> 00:06:11.430 >> Yeah. 00:06:11.490 --> 00:06:11.790 Yeah. 00:06:11.820 --> 00:06:12.540 I think it's. 00:06:13.859 --> 00:06:16.680 Proven that, you know, Haskell does really work well in production. 00:06:16.830 --> 00:06:21.780 And, you know, you can start up a whole Greenfield project and 00:06:21.780 --> 00:06:23.669 have it done in three weeks. 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:27.780 Uh, and that's cause that's what we did, you know, and it's, you 00:06:27.780 --> 00:06:29.280 know, obviously kudos to our team. 00:06:29.280 --> 00:06:32.880 Our team did a great job, uh, but also kudos to Haskell. 00:06:32.940 --> 00:06:37.950 It gave us that opportunity just to start go, compiler is going to 00:06:37.950 --> 00:06:39.810 help us hold our hand along the way. 00:06:39.930 --> 00:06:46.919 And you know, we'll kind of make choices and ideally that generally 00:06:46.919 --> 00:06:47.760 they're pretty good choices. 00:06:47.760 --> 00:06:52.380 So, you know, we are using servant as like our server. 00:06:52.619 --> 00:06:56.280 Um, and that was kind of, you know, repeated through for like a health 00:06:56.280 --> 00:06:59.460 check for each service, just to make sure that the thing is up and running. 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:02.640 Um, and so that, you know, was all pretty easy. 00:07:02.640 --> 00:07:06.179 And actually another cool thing we got to do in that process was 00:07:06.270 --> 00:07:10.530 create a stack template because a lot of our services have the same. 00:07:11.550 --> 00:07:15.440 And so we, anytime we need to start up a new service, we just use stack new 00:07:15.960 --> 00:07:20.460 the name of it in the template name and boom, you got all the lines of code. 00:07:20.460 --> 00:07:23.850 You need generator for you, uh, what the name populated through. 00:07:23.850 --> 00:07:28.170 So that was a pretty cool like experiment we did. 00:07:28.410 --> 00:07:33.000 Um, as after we created the first service, we did that to 00:07:33.030 --> 00:07:34.080 create the rest of the services. 00:07:35.205 --> 00:07:37.545 It, uh, set us up for success there, for sure. 00:07:38.235 --> 00:07:38.595 >> Yeah. 00:07:38.865 --> 00:07:39.135 Cool. 00:07:39.135 --> 00:07:39.975 Well, thanks for sharing. 00:07:39.975 --> 00:07:42.645 I look forward to hearing more in the coming weeks about how this 00:07:42.645 --> 00:07:46.935 project develops, um, cause I'm sure like you mentioned, you know, just 00:07:46.935 --> 00:07:50.025 picking a formatter, just getting some something out there is really good. 00:07:50.025 --> 00:07:53.295 And I think one of the strengths of Haskell is being able to change 00:07:53.295 --> 00:07:55.095 it later, refactor it confidently. 00:07:55.095 --> 00:07:58.755 So I'm curious if y'all have any interesting refactoring stories. 00:07:59.025 --> 00:07:59.294 >> Oh yeah. 00:07:59.294 --> 00:08:03.854 That's that's our, after, after lunch we have our next sprint is 00:08:03.854 --> 00:08:05.715 to kind of come back together. 00:08:05.784 --> 00:08:08.414 Talk about the decisions you made, figure out if that's really what 00:08:08.414 --> 00:08:11.835 we want to do, get some consistency in the code base because you 00:08:11.914 --> 00:08:13.104 do, we want to qualify imports. 00:08:13.125 --> 00:08:16.950 Do we want to, you know, just important, the whole fricking module. 00:08:16.950 --> 00:08:18.810 It's like, well, how do we want to write our code? 00:08:18.810 --> 00:08:21.000 And so that's something we're going to be coming back to. 00:08:21.330 --> 00:08:24.690 Um, So I'm sure I'll be able to update you guys with that next 00:08:24.690 --> 00:08:26.880 week and the following weeks. 00:08:26.940 --> 00:08:30.870 So, because our goal is to make Haskell weekly. 00:08:30.870 --> 00:08:33.120 This is the goal weekly being the key word there? 00:08:33.810 --> 00:08:34.140 Well, 00:08:34.169 --> 00:08:38.010 >> uh, so let's get into some of the news from this week. 00:08:38.070 --> 00:08:41.760 Uh, we'll start with maybe the smaller ticket item, which 00:08:41.760 --> 00:08:44.910 is the Haskell weekly survey. 00:08:44.969 --> 00:08:51.870 The state of Haskell survey, um, is out, I released it on November 1st 00:08:51.930 --> 00:08:56.429 and it will be open for two weeks, which is through November 15th. 00:08:56.939 --> 00:08:58.439 Uh, I do this every year. 00:08:58.439 --> 00:09:00.060 I've done it for the past four years. 00:09:00.090 --> 00:09:01.319 So this is the fifth year. 00:09:01.830 --> 00:09:06.780 And, um, yeah, it's just a, your opportunity as a member of the Haskell 00:09:06.780 --> 00:09:09.360 community or somebody interested in Haskell, if you don't feel 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:10.350 like you're part of the community. 00:09:11.535 --> 00:09:15.225 To weigh in on how you think Haskell as a language is what 00:09:15.225 --> 00:09:17.655 you think of the community, how things can be improved, all that. 00:09:18.135 --> 00:09:21.645 And I'll do what I've done every year, which is post the results at the 00:09:21.645 --> 00:09:23.445 end and do a little bit of analysis. 00:09:23.475 --> 00:09:26.085 So that cam you asked earlier, what, uh, what have I been doing 00:09:26.085 --> 00:09:27.944 recently, uh, gearing up for that? 00:09:27.944 --> 00:09:31.035 So, uh, the survey is a little bit different this year to 00:09:31.035 --> 00:09:34.185 overlap more with some other programming communities and also. 00:09:34.500 --> 00:09:38.099 Looking forward to next year, the Haskell foundation will 00:09:38.099 --> 00:09:39.780 likely be taking over the survey. 00:09:39.780 --> 00:09:42.959 So this year is kind of a transitionary period for that. 00:09:43.459 --> 00:09:44.310 Nice, yeah I was actually 00:09:44.310 --> 00:09:48.990 >> just about to ask like fast Haskell foundation hasn't taken it yet. 00:09:49.589 --> 00:09:50.160 >> Not yet. 00:09:50.160 --> 00:09:53.459 So I've been talking with Andrew Boardman, who's the executive 00:09:53.459 --> 00:09:55.140 director of the Haskell foundation. 00:09:55.560 --> 00:09:59.130 Um, and they're definitely interested in taking it over and 00:09:59.310 --> 00:10:00.780 reshaping it just a little bit. 00:10:01.020 --> 00:10:03.825 Uh, Yeah, that will happen next year. 00:10:04.095 --> 00:10:05.565 So this year it's still just me. 00:10:05.595 --> 00:10:08.955 Um, but I'll continue to do what I've done previous years. 00:10:09.285 --> 00:10:09.515 How much 00:10:09.525 --> 00:10:10.725 >> did you charge him to take it? 00:10:12.315 --> 00:10:12.885 I'm just kidding. 00:10:13.815 --> 00:10:14.955 It's all for the community. 00:10:15.405 --> 00:10:16.005 >> Yes. 00:10:16.185 --> 00:10:19.455 Um, so yeah, if you're listening to this, please, uh, I'll leave a link 00:10:19.455 --> 00:10:22.545 in the show notes, or you can just head over to Haskell weekly.news 00:10:22.545 --> 00:10:23.725 and there will be a link there. 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:26.730 Go take the survey, tell everyone, you know, to take the survey. 00:10:26.819 --> 00:10:30.750 I think we're up to, we're recording this on Friday the fifth and it's up 00:10:30.750 --> 00:10:33.150 to about eight or 900 respondents. 00:10:33.180 --> 00:10:34.710 So trying to push that number up. 00:10:35.100 --> 00:10:35.400 Yeah. 00:10:35.490 --> 00:10:35.790 Uh, 00:10:35.910 --> 00:10:41.460 >> I'm guilty of not doing it yet, so I need to step up my game apparently, 00:10:41.790 --> 00:10:45.150 but that's why we do Haskell weekly so we can remember to do things like this. 00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:49.250 So thanks Taylor for that to, yeah, I think it's exciting. 00:10:49.470 --> 00:10:50.939 I always enjoy it. 00:10:50.970 --> 00:10:51.540 I just need to. 00:10:52.365 --> 00:10:53.235 Sit down and do it. 00:10:53.625 --> 00:10:53.865 >> Yeah. 00:10:53.925 --> 00:10:55.365 It'll take about 10 minutes. 00:10:55.465 --> 00:10:58.185 >> Just like Shia LaBeouf just do it yesterday. 00:10:58.185 --> 00:10:59.325 You said tomorrow. 00:11:00.645 --> 00:11:01.305 >> That's right. 00:11:01.965 --> 00:11:05.625 Um, but yeah, that's not the big ticket news from this week. 00:11:05.675 --> 00:11:07.285 Cam, You want to tee us up? 00:11:07.665 --> 00:11:08.835 >> Drum roll, please? 00:11:11.715 --> 00:11:14.025 It's probably like, uh, yeah, whoever listens to this. 00:11:14.025 --> 00:11:14.415 I'm sorry. 00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:16.230 Yeah. 00:11:16.470 --> 00:11:19.319 GHC 9.2.1 has been released. 00:11:19.860 --> 00:11:20.700 Woo. 00:11:21.660 --> 00:11:22.500 Ooh. 00:11:22.560 --> 00:11:27.180 So there's a lot of fun, cool things that happened with this release of GHC. 00:11:28.319 --> 00:11:30.660 Obviously it's going to take a little bit of time to get Stackage 00:11:30.680 --> 00:11:31.800 up to date and all that fun stuff. 00:11:31.830 --> 00:11:34.260 Cause, uh, but yeah. 00:11:35.400 --> 00:11:37.620 Why don't you share Taylor, since you let me do the announcement, 00:11:37.620 --> 00:11:39.780 why don't you share some of the highlights that are coming. 00:11:40.260 --> 00:11:40.800 Sure. 00:11:40.829 --> 00:11:45.870 >> So to start, there are just so many new things in this release. 00:11:46.020 --> 00:11:48.240 Uh, we're not going to have time to get into all of them. 00:11:48.270 --> 00:11:51.750 Otherwise, this would be like a two hour long episode, but I'll leave 00:11:51.750 --> 00:11:54.720 a link to the, uh, release notes, which I encourage you to go read. 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:55.980 We're just going to hit the highlights. 00:11:56.865 --> 00:12:01.035 Uh, first big one, which isn't, um, a change to like the code or 00:12:01.035 --> 00:12:04.334 anything like that, but a change to the code generator on the back 00:12:04.334 --> 00:12:06.725 end is that GHC can now produce 00:12:07.050 --> 00:12:11.940 native code for the apple architecture, which means all those fancy new 00:12:11.940 --> 00:12:17.550 MacBooks and Mac book, uh, excuse me, Mac minis and those new MacBook pros. 00:12:17.850 --> 00:12:23.160 Uh, you can now compile GHC that will run natively rather than get interpreted 00:12:23.160 --> 00:12:29.580 through the Rosetta, um, you know, changing from x86 64 into arm 64. 00:12:30.705 --> 00:12:34.485 So, uh, that just means it'll be faster, better tighter integration. 00:12:34.485 --> 00:12:37.845 I think there were also a lot of kind of incidental, um, changes or 00:12:37.845 --> 00:12:39.285 improvements to the code generator. 00:12:39.285 --> 00:12:45.225 As a result of this were needing to differentiate between arm 64 and x86 00:12:45.225 --> 00:12:48.765 64 made things more, um, like precise. 00:12:48.765 --> 00:12:52.635 So one of the things is like a word eight data type I think 00:12:52.695 --> 00:12:54.285 will actually be smaller. 00:12:54.285 --> 00:12:58.845 Like only use eight bits rather than it used to, I think take 64 bits. 00:13:00.150 --> 00:13:01.080 Go read the release notes. 00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:02.370 There's way more information about that. 00:13:02.370 --> 00:13:04.070 Just exciting native on M1 00:13:04.620 --> 00:13:04.860 >> yeah. 00:13:04.860 --> 00:13:09.930 So that means a Haskell community can be more, uh, more apple purchasers 00:13:11.490 --> 00:13:15.090 I'm in, I don't know that M1 Macs and M1 pro look pretty cool. 00:13:15.270 --> 00:13:19.200 I don't know, per their comparisons with like the I9 and 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:19.560 >> whatnot. 00:13:20.100 --> 00:13:20.370 Yeah. 00:13:20.370 --> 00:13:21.540 They're super fast. 00:13:21.570 --> 00:13:24.570 I, myself, have an M1 Mac mini at home. 00:13:24.630 --> 00:13:26.850 Uh, and I also have a windows machine. 00:13:26.850 --> 00:13:27.060 Also. 00:13:27.060 --> 00:13:31.155 I have a Linux machine, so I use GHC on all those I haven't yet 00:13:31.155 --> 00:13:33.075 got nine dot two on that Mac mini. 00:13:33.075 --> 00:13:36.465 So I can't, I don't have an experience report for, oh, it's blazing faster. 00:13:36.465 --> 00:13:38.955 It's super slow, but I expect it to be blazing fast. 00:13:39.825 --> 00:13:40.005 Yeah. 00:13:40.005 --> 00:13:42.155 >> We'll have to, uh, check in with you on that next week. 00:13:42.155 --> 00:13:43.995 See how That's going a little pet project. 00:13:44.955 --> 00:13:45.705 Ah, cool. 00:13:45.735 --> 00:13:46.005 Yeah. 00:13:46.035 --> 00:13:50.415 Um, I, I don't know if you can hear Roomba I just. 00:13:51.090 --> 00:13:54.840 That's running off in the background, DJ Roomba, DJ Roomba. 00:13:55.290 --> 00:13:59.460 But yeah, so, uh, I know there was a lot of changes in the area of records. 00:13:59.820 --> 00:14:02.730 Um, you want to talk about some of the language extensions, um, 00:14:02.880 --> 00:14:05.760 that they, uh, added and, or 00:14:05.760 --> 00:14:06.210 >> modified. 00:14:06.600 --> 00:14:06.870 Yeah. 00:14:07.050 --> 00:14:08.220 And I apologize in advance. 00:14:08.220 --> 00:14:11.280 If I get any of these wrong, I haven't been paying close attention 00:14:11.280 --> 00:14:13.500 to all of the proposals and implementations of these things, 00:14:13.500 --> 00:14:15.360 but yes, there are a lot of changes. 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:18.240 Records and record fields. 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:25.050 And the end result is that you can now write code in Haskell with the more 00:14:25.050 --> 00:14:31.590 typical record dot field notation that is popular in most object oriented languages. 00:14:32.100 --> 00:14:37.380 And you can have that read a real field on a record. 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:40.710 So if you define like a person type and they have a name and you can now 00:14:40.710 --> 00:14:43.695 say person.name, Read that field out. 00:14:44.295 --> 00:14:49.605 Um, or you can have synthetic fields where it's computed when 00:14:49.605 --> 00:14:50.895 you call it or something like that. 00:14:51.795 --> 00:14:55.005 Um, like I said, I haven't been paying super close attention to this, 00:14:55.005 --> 00:14:56.565 but that's my understanding of it. 00:14:56.835 --> 00:15:02.055 And this also rounds off some of the rough edges when it comes to 00:15:02.055 --> 00:15:06.495 records where you can have, um, multiple fields with the same name. 00:15:06.495 --> 00:15:10.905 And then when you do that dot access into them, it will disambiguate based on 00:15:11.340 --> 00:15:14.640 which thing it is that you're calling. 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:18.870 Um, and, uh, I think record updates. 00:15:18.870 --> 00:15:21.630 Are they also changed in this release? 00:15:21.630 --> 00:15:25.740 I think they're still changing, but the idea is that, uh, you will be able to do 00:15:25.740 --> 00:15:30.090 a record update, which is in the curly brackets where you say like a nested 00:15:30.090 --> 00:15:34.740 field in there where you can say person dot, name dot first equals something. 00:15:34.740 --> 00:15:36.360 And it will do a deep update into that. 00:15:37.230 --> 00:15:40.170 Rather than forcing you to like unwrap each level along the way 00:15:40.170 --> 00:15:41.370 and update the very inner thing. 00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:46.290 >> That'll be nice I feel like, uh, one thing that, one other language 00:15:46.290 --> 00:15:49.400 that could use something like that would be, uh, at least for like the. 00:15:50.235 --> 00:15:52.365 Changing of fields would be Elm. 00:15:52.665 --> 00:15:53.204 Yes. 00:15:53.595 --> 00:15:57.345 Gotta to like unwrap each section and then go to do the thing and then rewrap it. 00:15:57.345 --> 00:15:58.905 And it's like, uh, 00:15:59.415 --> 00:16:02.235 >> yeah, it's all this boiler plate for basically no reason. 00:16:02.295 --> 00:16:06.074 And in Elm, you can't even use lenses, which is the common 00:16:06.074 --> 00:16:07.574 Haskell way around this problem. 00:16:07.665 --> 00:16:10.875 And maybe the best way to talk about the record updates in GHC 00:16:10.875 --> 00:16:12.305 nine dot two is that it gets. 00:16:13.260 --> 00:16:18.719 Core language with some extensions, closer to what you can currently 00:16:18.719 --> 00:16:20.910 do with lenses as a library. 00:16:20.939 --> 00:16:24.959 So I'm sure that people who use lens may see that as a downside, like, 00:16:24.989 --> 00:16:27.540 Hey, you know, we have this powerful thing that we were able to implement 00:16:27.540 --> 00:16:31.349 without language support, but I know that a lot of people in the Haskell 00:16:31.349 --> 00:16:34.560 community are they shy away from lenses. 00:16:34.560 --> 00:16:36.869 And so having it built into the language is a big plus. 00:16:38.655 --> 00:16:41.715 >> That's been something for us is like, kind of figuring out, alright, 00:16:41.745 --> 00:16:43.395 what packages do we want to use? 00:16:43.395 --> 00:16:44.985 And what are the side effects with that? 00:16:45.015 --> 00:16:48.765 Oh, what's going to, you know, use lenses to, for updating documentation 00:16:48.765 --> 00:16:52.315 with swagger and it's like, all right, what is the dot tilde? 00:16:52.365 --> 00:16:52.815 Do? 00:16:52.935 --> 00:16:55.815 What about the dot till the curly or question mark? 00:16:56.115 --> 00:16:56.505 Oh yeah. 00:16:56.535 --> 00:16:57.285 That's what all these do. 00:16:57.325 --> 00:17:02.775 So, uh, yeah, I think, uh, creating some more language support for things 00:17:02.775 --> 00:17:04.835 like that without having to use lenses. 00:17:06.030 --> 00:17:11.110 Um, another thing one we've already talked about previously, uh, in a, 00:17:11.110 --> 00:17:16.080 in a previous episode is the GHC 20, 21, uh, language extension set. 00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:22.020 And so I think with 9.2 0.1, that is now a supported thing. 00:17:22.500 --> 00:17:24.720 Um, and yeah. 00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:25.290 What 00:17:25.320 --> 00:17:26.010 >> do you think about that? 00:17:26.760 --> 00:17:28.230 I'm really excited about this. 00:17:28.230 --> 00:17:33.600 And in fact, uh, in reading the release notes, Discovered something about this 00:17:33.600 --> 00:17:39.960 that I didn't know before, which is that when you're defining a Haskell project or 00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:46.320 package, I should say, in your cabal file or your package dot yaml, you typically 00:17:46.320 --> 00:17:50.100 say what your default languages and you pick one of the language reports. 00:17:50.130 --> 00:17:52.740 It's either Haskell 98, or it's Haskell 2010. 00:17:52.950 --> 00:17:56.070 And for the most part, those are interchangeable uh Haskell 2010. 00:17:56.130 --> 00:17:58.410 Isn't a radical departure from Haskell 98. 00:17:58.500 --> 00:18:00.140 It just shores up some things and enables. 00:18:01.170 --> 00:18:06.570 Um, I'm small extensions, but I think with this new release, if you don't 00:18:06.570 --> 00:18:11.430 specify a default language, you're going to get GHC 20, 21 by default, 00:18:11.940 --> 00:18:14.880 which means a lot of new extensions. 00:18:14.910 --> 00:18:18.330 They don't actually list the whole extension set here, but there are. 00:18:19.140 --> 00:18:23.490 Tens of extensions that this enables and it's, you know, there was a lot 00:18:23.520 --> 00:18:28.050 of feedback that went into this, um, partially motivated by the Haskell survey. 00:18:28.080 --> 00:18:29.580 So again, please fill that out. 00:18:29.580 --> 00:18:31.410 If you haven't shameless plug. 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:31.710 I love it. 00:18:31.710 --> 00:18:32.430 Exactly. 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:38.050 Um, but yeah, so it's stuff like, you know, uh, Lambda case or like multiparam 00:18:38.100 --> 00:18:41.250 type classes, I'm rattling these off, but I don't actually know that these 00:18:41.280 --> 00:18:44.670 in particular are enabled, but they kind of quality of life improvements 00:18:44.700 --> 00:18:46.560 that feel like they should be on. 00:18:47.639 --> 00:18:50.970 But haven't been because it's such a conservative language standard. 00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:54.720 Now they're bundled into this GHC 20, 21 language set and I'm really excited. 00:18:55.830 --> 00:18:56.190 >> Yeah. 00:18:56.220 --> 00:18:57.870 I know numeric underscores is in there. 00:18:58.020 --> 00:19:03.540 I was, uh, working with a buddy and I was like, he enabled uh that, 00:19:03.540 --> 00:19:05.129 and I was like, this is weird. 00:19:05.129 --> 00:19:06.750 Like I just haven't used this before. 00:19:07.080 --> 00:19:09.450 And he's like, yeah, well it's in GHC 2021. 00:19:09.450 --> 00:19:10.800 I was like, all right, cool. 00:19:10.800 --> 00:19:11.370 Let's do it. 00:19:11.730 --> 00:19:16.490 Uh, so yeah, I've definitely had my fair share. 00:19:17.560 --> 00:19:20.145 like hm this could be nice, just to be here. 00:19:20.175 --> 00:19:24.764 Uh, I think we've got quite a few language extensions ourselves, so be cool to 00:19:24.764 --> 00:19:28.695 see how many of those overlap with GHC 20, 21 and how many we're not using. 00:19:28.695 --> 00:19:32.175 And maybe that would be another helpful thing to, you know, iterate quickly. 00:19:32.745 --> 00:19:32.955 >> Yeah. 00:19:33.405 --> 00:19:37.485 And one of the things I really like about this is that it provides a 00:19:38.024 --> 00:19:42.225 common base or common subset for the community to kind of rally around. 00:19:43.065 --> 00:19:45.905 So right now I think the status quo is. 00:19:46.980 --> 00:19:52.889 Everyone has kind of their own mental checklist of that's a okay extension. 00:19:52.919 --> 00:19:53.909 That's a bad one. 00:19:53.909 --> 00:19:57.870 And this one I'm kind of ambivalent about, and maybe not for every extension, 00:19:57.870 --> 00:20:01.230 there are a bunch, but you know, you say undecidable instances and some 00:20:01.230 --> 00:20:02.699 people are like, Ooh, I hate that. 00:20:02.760 --> 00:20:03.780 Or, oh yeah, that's fine. 00:20:03.810 --> 00:20:04.830 I'll enable that, whatever. 00:20:05.340 --> 00:20:09.600 Um, and by having a group of stuff altogether in GHC 20, 21, 00:20:10.110 --> 00:20:13.310 we can as a community, just say like, this is what I'm using 00:20:13.725 --> 00:20:15.195 you're probably already familiar with all of it. 00:20:15.225 --> 00:20:16.215 This is our new baseline. 00:20:16.215 --> 00:20:16.455 All right. 00:20:16.455 --> 00:20:19.845 Let's have all these features and make development life better for 00:20:19.845 --> 00:20:20.145 >> us. 00:20:20.535 --> 00:20:21.795 Yep, exactly. 00:20:22.275 --> 00:20:22.545 Yeah. 00:20:22.605 --> 00:20:23.655 So that's, that's good. 00:20:23.745 --> 00:20:28.125 Uh, that's another great win for GHC 9.2 0.1. 00:20:28.665 --> 00:20:31.395 Uh, are there any other like topic talking points? 00:20:31.395 --> 00:20:33.765 I mean, like you said, we could talk for hours on this. 00:20:34.574 --> 00:20:38.205 And I want to be cognizant of everyone's time, including yours. 00:20:38.534 --> 00:20:41.804 Now you're a busy man with talking to people over the pond and whatnot. 00:20:43.064 --> 00:20:45.584 >> You're busy too working on that new product, but there is 00:20:45.584 --> 00:20:50.534 one more thing I wanted to talk about, um, which is GHC exact print. 00:20:50.865 --> 00:20:53.745 And at the top of the show, I was talking about Brittany, the source 00:20:53.745 --> 00:20:59.024 code formatter Brittany is actually built on top of GHC exact print, 00:20:59.294 --> 00:21:01.675 which used to be a separate library. 00:21:02.070 --> 00:21:06.360 And if you're not familiar with it, GHC exact print is sort of like 00:21:06.389 --> 00:21:09.929 the pretty printer that doesn't actually make things prettier. 00:21:10.379 --> 00:21:15.570 All that it does is parse your source file into an AST and then 00:21:15.810 --> 00:21:18.209 give you back exactly the same thing. 00:21:18.419 --> 00:21:19.830 Hence the name, exact print. 00:21:20.969 --> 00:21:23.909 This seems kind of useless, but it's actually really 00:21:23.909 --> 00:21:26.100 useful for doing refactorings. 00:21:26.129 --> 00:21:32.190 So if you want to parse a file and then say, Something that HLint does 00:21:32.190 --> 00:21:36.870 a lot, for example, is like, if you have an expression where you say, when 00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:42.270 not something do this, you can replace that with, unless something do this. 00:21:43.140 --> 00:21:47.220 And HLint actually leans on a different tool to do those refactorings. 00:21:47.250 --> 00:21:50.190 But with GHC exact print, you could implement those types of 00:21:50.190 --> 00:21:53.670 refactorings by parsing the AST, and then transforming the little part 00:21:53.670 --> 00:21:56.730 of the AST you're interested in, and then writing it back out to a file. 00:21:58.245 --> 00:22:03.075 Or obviously you can use it as the basis for a pretty printer where you parse the 00:22:03.075 --> 00:22:10.755 AST and then transform not the, um, like not what it means, but what it looks like. 00:22:10.785 --> 00:22:12.165 And then write that back out to a file. 00:22:12.735 --> 00:22:17.205 So, uh, I mentioned all this, the, the actual change in GHC nine dot two is 00:22:17.205 --> 00:22:20.295 that exact print is now part of GHC. 00:22:20.355 --> 00:22:22.245 So it's no longer a separate library. 00:22:22.755 --> 00:22:23.595 And that just means. 00:22:24.315 --> 00:22:25.575 More widely available. 00:22:25.635 --> 00:22:26.355 You're guaranteed. 00:22:26.355 --> 00:22:27.285 It's going to be up to date. 00:22:27.465 --> 00:22:28.185 Those are good things. 00:22:28.605 --> 00:22:28.785 >> Yeah. 00:22:28.785 --> 00:22:32.295 So in there, in that explanation, you did use a couple acronyms 00:22:32.295 --> 00:22:33.465 that I wasn't sure of. 00:22:33.795 --> 00:22:35.775 Um, and for the listeners, I want to make sure that they 00:22:35.775 --> 00:22:37.875 are also not in the dark there. 00:22:37.995 --> 00:22:39.795 Um, I think you said AST. 00:22:40.575 --> 00:22:40.995 >> Yes. 00:22:41.025 --> 00:22:45.015 So AST stands for abstract syntax tree. 00:22:45.675 --> 00:22:48.495 And what that means is typically the. 00:22:49.185 --> 00:22:52.504 Like the source code you have in a file is just a bunch of bytes, 00:22:52.504 --> 00:22:55.245 they're characters, whatever, how are you, however you encode them. 00:22:55.725 --> 00:22:59.785 And then the compiler doesn't want to deal with those bytes directly. 00:22:59.805 --> 00:23:01.965 It wants to deal with an abstract representation of them. 00:23:02.024 --> 00:23:05.115 So programming languages are typically typically pretty complicated, but 00:23:05.115 --> 00:23:09.284 the same thing is true for like JSON, you have like curly bracket, double 00:23:09.284 --> 00:23:13.245 quote, something close, double quote colon, and like, okay, that's great. 00:23:13.245 --> 00:23:18.435 But really what I'm representing here is JSON object, key name is this and value. 00:23:19.274 --> 00:23:25.215 So an AST is essentially like a abstract representation of the syntax. 00:23:25.725 --> 00:23:26.145 Gotcha. 00:23:26.625 --> 00:23:29.835 >> I feel like there was something else, but I can't quite call it out. 00:23:29.835 --> 00:23:32.085 And I know it's not an NDA cause that's something else. 00:23:32.415 --> 00:23:37.695 Uh, so, well, if whoever's listening and they re see which 00:23:37.695 --> 00:23:38.835 one that was and have a question. 00:23:39.615 --> 00:23:40.245 Pink Taylor. 00:23:40.245 --> 00:23:41.385 He'll, he'll answer it for you. 00:23:41.385 --> 00:23:44.535 Cause I mean, you can pay me, I'll research it, but I 00:23:44.545 --> 00:23:45.615 can't guarantee the answer. 00:23:45.645 --> 00:23:48.975 >> So ping you and then you can ask me and then I'll tell you and perfect. 00:23:48.975 --> 00:23:49.095 Tell 00:23:49.095 --> 00:23:51.195 >> them I will just play telephone with this. 00:23:51.295 --> 00:23:52.125 Sounds like a great idea. 00:23:53.085 --> 00:23:53.505 Awesome. 00:23:53.505 --> 00:23:58.305 Well thank you, uh, for kind of diving into those, uh, today and sharing 00:23:58.305 --> 00:24:04.950 with us, uh, Really are some of the highlights and top points of GHC 9.2 0.1. 00:24:05.310 --> 00:24:10.470 Please do go look at the full spec if you're interested in what changed. 00:24:10.860 --> 00:24:13.050 Um, cause there's a laundry list of things. 00:24:13.050 --> 00:24:15.240 So, uh, definitely check it out. 00:24:15.690 --> 00:24:21.300 Uh, hopefully soon we'll continue to get every stack supporting 9.2 00:24:21.300 --> 00:24:23.070 0.1 and, and all that fun stuff. 00:24:23.070 --> 00:24:23.370 So. 00:24:24.615 --> 00:24:28.004 Now that it's officially been released, we can kind of wait for that ball roll 00:24:28.004 --> 00:24:31.485 for all the, the full support for normal. 00:24:31.605 --> 00:24:36.315 Uh, you know, obviously you can still use 9.2 0.1, but if you want it, you know, 00:24:37.125 --> 00:24:40.445 >> it's a lot easier when stackage has at least a nightly 00:24:40.445 --> 00:24:42.115 snapshot for nine dot two dot one. 00:24:42.135 --> 00:24:45.735 Cause that means most of the libraries you probably depend on 00:24:45.885 --> 00:24:47.205 have been updated to support it. 00:24:47.655 --> 00:24:49.754 Um, and my expectation. 00:24:50.835 --> 00:24:55.365 As someone who maintains a handful of libraries is that upgrading to nine dot 00:24:55.395 --> 00:24:58.875 two is probably going to be a little bit easier than upgrading to nine dot. 00:24:58.915 --> 00:24:59.294 Oh. 00:24:59.985 --> 00:25:03.735 Um, from the change from eight dot 10 to nine dot, oh, there were 00:25:03.735 --> 00:25:06.675 a lot of internal changes in GHC restructuring and stuff like that. 00:25:06.885 --> 00:25:10.125 And so that made it hard for libraries that depend on those internals to update. 00:25:10.125 --> 00:25:12.465 And it seems like there aren't as many with nine dot two. 00:25:14.804 --> 00:25:15.135 >> Cool. 00:25:15.254 --> 00:25:17.225 Well, thank you guys for listening. 00:25:18.090 --> 00:25:19.110 Uh, yeah, you want 00:25:22.230 --> 00:25:24.840 >> well, uh, I want to add one thing to the outro and then you can 00:25:24.840 --> 00:25:30.060 do the normal bit, which is, um, if you guys have you listening, have any 00:25:30.060 --> 00:25:33.570 questions about, you know, stuff we talk about on this show, or if you have 00:25:33.570 --> 00:25:36.750 suggestions for things you would like us to talk about, please let one of 00:25:36.750 --> 00:25:39.120 us know or tweet us at Haskell weekly. 00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:40.620 Um, I would really. 00:25:41.850 --> 00:25:45.300 Like to get into questions from our listeners and, you know, 00:25:45.360 --> 00:25:46.710 I, should we do this or that? 00:25:46.710 --> 00:25:48.389 Or should we architect things this way or that way? 00:25:48.629 --> 00:25:51.210 I think Cameron and I have a fair amount of experience working in 00:25:51.210 --> 00:25:52.530 professional environments with Haskell. 00:25:52.530 --> 00:25:54.720 And I'd love to share that with the larger community, but it's 00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:56.940 hard to just jump off of nothing. 00:25:56.940 --> 00:25:58.170 You know, we need a need a prompt. 00:25:58.590 --> 00:25:58.860 >> Yeah. 00:25:59.220 --> 00:25:59.700 I would agree. 00:26:00.060 --> 00:26:01.320 Um, yeah. 00:26:02.379 --> 00:26:03.000 Sounds great to me. 00:26:03.330 --> 00:26:03.930 Well, awesome. 00:26:03.930 --> 00:26:06.389 Thank you guys for listening to the Haskell weekly podcast. 00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:08.790 Uh, we are a show about Haskell. 00:26:09.750 --> 00:26:10.260 It's in the name. 00:26:10.260 --> 00:26:10.830 That's pretty cool. 00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:16.110 Uh, if you guys are interested, please follow us @HaskellWeekly. 00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:20.900 Um, or you can find us online at HaskellWeekly.News 00:26:21.600 --> 00:26:22.260 >> you got it. 00:26:22.350 --> 00:26:27.300 And, uh, as per usual, we are brought to you by my employer, ACI Learning. 00:26:27.870 --> 00:26:33.600 Uh, if you want to go over to it pro.tv and fill in promo code Haskell 00:26:33.600 --> 00:26:37.840 weekly 30, you can get 30% off the lifetime of your subscription. 00:26:38.280 --> 00:26:39.510 So thank you for 00:26:39.510 --> 00:26:43.649 >> using, because our domain is it pro.tv and we 00:26:43.649 --> 00:26:44.879 were purchased by ACI Learning. 00:26:44.879 --> 00:26:50.669 So for, well, yeah, they were, uh, my previous employer, one of us, one 00:26:50.669 --> 00:26:51.210 >> of us, 00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:54.690 >> but yeah, I mean, I spent, I spent a long time there, so I feel 00:26:54.690 --> 00:26:58.830 like even if I'm not there, it's still part of it for some reason. 00:26:59.520 --> 00:27:01.260 Um, I mean, I did just walk into the building the other 00:27:01.260 --> 00:27:03.050 day and just walk on in. 00:27:03.629 --> 00:27:06.450 >> Security's really light there, lose a ping pong game. 00:27:07.410 --> 00:27:07.800 I did 00:27:08.550 --> 00:27:15.390 >> Taylor Fausak beat me on November 3rd, around 12:45 PM. 00:27:15.450 --> 00:27:15.660 Not a 00:27:15.660 --> 00:27:16.090 >> big deal. 00:27:16.120 --> 00:27:17.700 We made a plaque, but it's not a big deal. 00:27:17.820 --> 00:27:18.120 Yeah. 00:27:18.150 --> 00:27:18.610 >> It's no biggie. 00:27:19.710 --> 00:27:23.010 I was the reigning champion, but you know, now I'll cry away, but 00:27:23.010 --> 00:27:24.750 anyways, thank you guys for listening. 00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:26.580 We'll catch you guys next week. 00:27:27.120 --> 00:27:27.780 Peace.